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| YOUR VOICE on Prop 8 and Measure V |
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| Written by PI Readers | |
| Friday, 31 October 2008 | |
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PROP 8 ‘Yes on 8’ does not mean hate EDITOR, In a recent issue, you endorsed John Eisenhut in part because he opposes Proposition 8. Does the community of Patterson know that while smiling in their face, Eisenhut is speaking with a forked tongue? Most Patterson residents are traditional and patriotic Americans, unlike what the “No on Hate for Prop 8” people make us out to be in the ad you printed this past week. You allowed such an ad to be run in your paper along with a column supporting the homosexual lifestyle the week before. The people who attend the many Patterson churches take their religion very seriously. They do not “hate,” as you are allowing your readers to believe, and they only believe in preserving what has been the pillar of societies for the past 5,000 years. Scott McKinley’s whimsical column tries to use the Bible to mock those who would like a ban on same sex marriage by quoting scriptures from the Old Testament. True believers know that when Christ was crucified, he was the ultimate sacrifice and made it no longer necessary for the old rituals and practices to continue. And then McKinley uses the civil rights issue, which is way off base and is very offensive to the majority of African-Americans. So when are we going to see an article in favor of the ban and supporting traditional marriage, since that is what the majority of the Patterson population wants? Why is it when we speak truth, facts and statistics, it is called hate, yet when the gay community assaults individuals for exercising their First Amendment rights in the street and at their homes, the word “hate” is never used? When is the liberal media going to admit that there are problems with homosexuality, like killing millions every year through HIV and AIDS? And that the gay community is forcing our education system to indoctrinate our children into believing that this lifestyle is acceptable and normal? The facts cannot be ignored, and yet you ignore them and print feelings and emotions of the gay community over truth and fact. As a community and society, we have the right to exercise free speech and should be given equal time in the media. I encourage all those who care about the traditional family and who want to uphold parents’ right to decide what values their children should be taught to vote yes on Proposition 8 on Tuesday. Diane Griego, Patterson Marriage already defined — by God EDITOR, Scott McKinley believes it would be wrong for voters in California to add an amendment to the state constitution defining marriage as between one man and one woman. I appreciate McKinley’s compassion the homosexual. However, it’s hard to make a case for right and wrong when you claim that we are the result of random cosmic accident. What McKinley is arguing for is less about right and wrong and more about what feels right and what feels wrong. A perspective that is really about what “I” want. Whatever we want, whatever feels good. He has rejected God, but he can’t escape our ingrained sense of morality and justice, even compassion. Yet these God-given traits are now warped, and because he’s pushed God out of the picture, he is stuck trying to figure out how they fit on his own. He knows that there has to be such a thing as right and wrong, so in his compassion for the plight of the homosexual, he argues for fairness. And his resolve is strengthened by a swelling sense of righteousness. But there is the problem. It is self-righteousness. This is what we are left with when we reject the righteousness of God. McKinley wants to discredit the group he calls religious for quoting bits and pieces of scripture, yet he, a man who does not believe the Bible, would presume to know the correct interpretation of those passages. “It’s difficult to respect this salad-bar approach to religion.” Which leads to atheistic philosophers claiming to have discredited the word of God by quoting various passages while ignoring the God who gives them breath. Talk about dangerous territory. His attempt at equating homosexual “marriages” with interracial marriages is absurd. I am a product of an interracial marriage. I could never be the product of a homosexual marriage. He says that the stage would be set for “more religious codes entering law.” Has he forgotten that laws were originally derived from religious codes? The very issue he is talking about, marriage, exists in our laws because it was adopted from religious law. Proposition 8 is not about hate. It’s not bigotry. It is simply defining marriage in the California state constitution. Marriage is already defined — it was established by God and enacted by him, and it will continue to be blessed by him. Dale Torres Jr., Patterson MEASURE "V" ‘Yes’ on V, for our schools EDITOR, Thank you to all who support our schools by voting yes on Measure V. The schools that serve Patterson, Westley, Grayson and Vernalis educate the best children in the world. Thanks to a terrific team of teachers, classified staff, administrators and parents, our schools get better and our communities become stronger. Our students are developing leadership skills through community service and after school activities like student government, theater, band, music and sports. This fall, the Irrigator reported the terrific academic success on the state’s Academic Performance Index. Many schools doubled and tripled their results on state targets. More students are attending college and vocational schools than ever before. The California Department of Education recognized that Patterson’s graduation rates are better than the county and the state. Yes, we need your continued support. We ask for your help to be competitive in the future. Many of our classrooms are more than 40 years old and need to be repaired, renovated and better wired for technology. Our agriculture science and vocational classrooms were built in 1966 and need to be modernized. Measure V will make all of our schools ready for the 21st century. By building Walnut Grove School, we can relieve overcrowding at Northmead Elementary and Creekside Middle schools. Each school has a list of much-needed renovations and repairs. The Patterson Unified School Board, Patterson City Council, Patterson police chief, Stanislaus County Sheriff, Yosemite Community College District chancellor, Patterson-Westley Chamber of Commerce, Patterson Irrigator, Carpenter’s Union and hundreds of families are supporting Measure V. We appreciate their commitment to improving our community. A “yes” vote on Tuesday is a vote for the future of our children. On behalf of our hardworking students and their families, I ask you to vote yes on Measure V. Patrick J. Sweeney, superintendent, Patterson Unified School District No more school bonds EDITOR, I wonder what the schools plan to do with $50 million. They say they will repair things. What things? Where is a detailed explanation of what they want all this money for? The state is broke. The county is broke. Yet they want you to pay for these bonds while people are struggling to feed and clothe their families! I wish I could afford to buy a full-page ad in the Irrigator, but I am saving up to pay my property tax on Dec. 10, which includes three Patterson school bonds already. Enough is enough! Walter W. Holcombe, Patterson Read Measure V closely EDITOR, The economy is slowing, house values are shrinking, and the Patterson Unified School District already has three bonds on our tax bill. One expires in 2012, and the other two phase out in 2020 (according to Assistant Superintent Steve Menge). I’m urging voters to carefully read Measure V before they vote “Yes.” It is a 30-year bond with no guaranteed rate until they sell the bonds. The rates per $100,000 are only a best-guess estimate. They will slowly go up over the life of the bond. Kay Naphy, Patterson Comments
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Fox News!? Can you find any reliable sources without any political slant or agenda?
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Proposition 8 is about CIVIL MARRIAGE not religious marriage.
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It's about ELIMINATING the CIVIL rights of a small group of citizens. Why why why do you think it is alright to vote to limit the rights of your neighbors, family and friends. Keep your god out of my government. I wouldn't vote to dissolve your marriage, why would you vote to dissolve the marriages of over 16,000 couples who you don't even know??? NO ON PROP 8!!!!!!!!!!!!! report abuse
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no on prop-8-ganda!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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to say the church hates not gays and the measure is to protect children..give me a break! yes the church hates gays otherwise they would be reaching out to the gay community and trying to spread the true word of love and peace. the bible a book that has been used to murder,ensleave,belittle,seperate,scare,and control people! it has been the catalyst to millions of crimes against humanity. if being gay is bad then let god take care of it in the end. i trust nothing that comes from fox news i trust sean hannity as far as i could throw him. i wish the church got just as involved with all the sex crimes against children that have been committed by church leaders. where were all the bills, measures, and props for that? if i have a problem with the content in my childrens education i will take it up with the district i dont need the church to help me. once the church starts having pull over the public education who knows where it will stop. if i want to go to church i know where to go..i dont need it sneaking it's way into my childrens education. like i said before i grew up in a community with large amounts of OPENLY gay people. i never felt threatned or pressured by the gay community. they were an active part of the community not some vil people lurking as perverts in the alley ways or bath houses. you know what scared me and bothered me and what i felt threatend by! the chruch nuts with there pro-life signs with horrbile pictures of dead babies on them. they would picket on the corner across the street from my high school. then there were the hateful churches that would stand with there signs on the corners by bars,resturants,family public parks,movie theaters with signs that read"GOD HATES QUEERS!" "FAGS GO TO HELL!" where is the peace,love,undersatnding in that. we had mormons pa*sing out flyers at my middle school and when i was in high school we had churches that would wait by the bus stop and pa*s out little bibles. barking out bits of the bible for shock value. so maybe some people are not as extreme but the idea behind prop 8 comes from the same place of "they are not like us b/c our bible says so".."so we must cast them as perverts,different,bad,evil and isolate them". sad thing is this tactic is so old and played out it was used on blacks,the deformed,people with mental disorders,poor,unwed men and women,teen moms, now gays. everybody knows marriage is man and women! dead horse the gay thing move onto real issues! report abuse
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Diane Griego,
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It is hard to say what true believers know. For example, there are many true believers that want the Ten Commandments placed in schools and courthouses even though that is purely Old Testament. The end result is that many true believers tend to pick and choose pa*sages from the New and Old Testament they want to believe and follow, and they ignore the rest. That is one reason that religious based laws are a bad idea -- they are too subjective to interpretation. You can easily find Christian preachers that support both sides of this issue and both sides quote the Bible and believe God is on their side. If it were black and white, then the religious community would not be divided over this issue. If you think that HIV / AIDS is such a huge issue, then that is an argument against Prop 8, since homosexuals in marriage would be more likely to "settle down." Dale Torres Jr., My morality is based on the Golden Rule or any of its equivalents found in other religions/cultures. So when I apply the Golden Rule to homosexuals, I realize that it is morally wrong to remove their rights without good reason. Do you really want a return to "traditional marriage" as defined by the Bible? Where raped girls had to marry their rapist? Where girls who had sex before marriage were stoned to death in front of their parents? If not, then you are taking the salad bar approach to "traditional marriage" where you pick and choose which parts you want to follow based on personal feelings. I think you missed the mark about there being no children from homosexual couples. With artificial insemination, adoption and remarriage, children can belong to homosexual couples. While many believers supported interracial marriage, one of the main oppositions to it was religious belief. As a trial judge once said on the issue: "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and He placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with His arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that He separated the races shows that He did not intend for the races to mix." If you say "yes" to Prop 8, you are re-opening that same door that says that some people's religious beliefs should decide how others can love and express their fidelity to each other. report abuse
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 This is in response to "What say you", and Scott McKinley, My first response to both of you is to say I'm so sorry that your understanding of who God is, has been corrupted beacuse of those who inaccurately demonstrate the truth of His character. If you were to genuinely seek to know Him, you would understand His love for mankind. Jesus's entire life was about God's love and compa*sion for His creation, and His attempt to reconcile our relationship with Him. Having said that, I would like to point out the possiblity that there are some areas where others may have negatively influenced your thinking. "What you say" said "if i have a problem with the content in my childrens education i will take it up with the district i dont need the church to help me. once the church starts having pull over the public education who knows where it will stop. if i want to go to church i know where to go..i dont need it sneaking it's way into my childrens education." Apparently you aren't concerned about what the homosexual society might be sneaking into your children's education. I hope you are involved enough in your children's education to understand all that's being taught to them. Scott, you said "I think you missed the mark about there being no children from homosexual couples. With artificial insemination, adoption and remarriage, children can belong to homosexual couples.", which simply demonstrates the corruption in your thinking. Two men cannot produce a child on their own, nor can two women. It takes a man and a women, no matter how you try to change it. The children brought into homosexual relationships are the product of the union between a male sperm and a female egg. You also said "While many believers supported interracial marriage, one of the main oppositions to it was religious belief. As a trial judge once said on the issue: "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, Malay and red, and He placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with His arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that He separated the races shows that He did not intend for the races to mix." How sad that this individual was so mislead by his racisim, and that you would a*sume that it is the thinking of any who align themselves with Almighty God. The fact is, there are a lot of hurt and angry people in this world. Many use religion as a bludgening tool to avoid the real issue of their own insecuriies. But you see, there is a HUGE difference between religion and relationship. Religion is mans way of trying to reach God, Christianity is God's way of trying to reach man. Everyone wants to know that they have value, and that their opionion matters. God wants us to know that we do. Until we are able to see one another with eyes of His grace and compa*sion, the fight will continue. May the truth of who HE is become known to you. report abuse
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Amy Torres please get off of your jesus high horse....i live in a world of facts and science. i hate the fact people feel they have the moral authority and then duty to preach the word especially to warn of what they feel is not in line with the word of god. if there is a judgement day gay people will face there so called sin at that point. as far as my childrens education im involved and not worried the least bit about gay lifestlye teaching. i dont sip from that cup of kool-aid that gays are out to rule the world and take over the minds of children. no i think extreme radical religion in on that job!
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i think jesus would be more worried by starving children,war, and greed and bringing love and strength to those suffering right now. report abuse
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Scott,
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Thanks for your reply. I just can't escape the conclusion that you are using the very "salad bar" approach to religion that you seem to oppose. You say that your "morality is based on the golden rule or it's equivalent found in other religions/cultures." So you like what Jesus says on one hand "Do to others as you would have them do to you" (Luke 6:31); But you throw out what you don't like on the other hand "..from the begining God created them male and female..For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined with his wife.." (Mark 10:7) The Golden Rule is a good one to live by and I appreciate that you put a disclaimer in yours: "...without good reason." Jesus also defined what he meant by "do unto others", which you can see as you read that section. Of course if we only had the golden rule and not the "good reason" to apply it properly our sense of morality might get out of control. For example somone who likes cutting themself would go around cutting others, someone who was anoexic might attempt to prevent people from eating, someone who believed there was a space ship behind a comet might convince people to drink poison Kool-Aid. Of course all of these people would fully believe they were right and would be acting on moral grounds. For our issue I think the "good reason" is that Prop 8 is not outlawing homosexuality or about promoting hate or violence against homosexuals, but instead is about maintaining the definition of society's longest standing instituion. The good reason is not allowing homosexuals to incorrectly define a union between homosexuals as fundamentaly the same thing as a union between heterosexuals. Sally a mom, You said "Get you God our of My government" I would like to ask you, How far out of our government should my God go? Remember this is the same God who speaks out against murder, theft, adultery, oppression, curruption and more. Should we eliminate all laws that have their base in the Bible or that have their base in any religion? report abuse
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The Torres' just proved how much their religion brain washed them. If your got truly is all loving and forgiving then why are you so filled with hate. If your child was gay i would never want them to feel as if their world hated them for something THEIR god created. If god created everything he created homosexuals for a reason. I am a gay man and i can tell you that i never CHOOSE this lifestyle just like you never choose to be attracted to a person of the opposite sex. I pray and pray that god gives you a gay child just so you can see that your god isnt so great, especially if he made a product of your union homosexual. Then i will feel justified. Thanks again for showing us how brain washed your cult, i mean church makes people.
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In reply to It's still called h8
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I am so sorry that you feel our opinion is "filled with hate". You have made a judgement on us that is inaccurate. We do not hate the homosexual, nor are we brain washed by our religion. We have chosen to believe God is loving and kind, and have tried, to the best of our ability to share His love with others. If our opinion seems hateful, it is because of how the words are received, not how they are written. Prejudice and misunderstanding comes in many packages. report abuse
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So your basically saying that you love everyone but that OUR government shouldnt allow us to marry because YOUR GOD doesnt want us to? so your saying that heterosexuals should be treated better than Homosexuals in our government because your god says so? Funny thing is that religion is supposed to be seperate from government. TAKE YOUR RELIGION OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT. If you wanna follow the word of your god I hope you didnt vote because that means you sinned since women are treated less than equal to men in your bible and since we all know you did vote AMY i guess ill see you in H E double Hockey sticks. Dont forget to bring something to keep cool
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To: It's still called h8
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What I'm saying is that government shouldn't be given the authority to rewrite the definition of marriage to suit the sexual preferences of individuals. I don't think it's a governmental issue. As far as the sin issue, my Bible says "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God", and that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life. God sent His Son into the world not to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" and "by grace you are saved through faith, not of works." Perhaps you would understand better if you read it in context. If you were to read some of the New Testament you'd realize Jesus treated women with great respect. If you're truly interested in truth, the book of John is a great place to begin. It is not my job to judge another's walk on this earth, but to walk as wisely as possible. If you think hell is where you're headed.. I pray you will find the way of escape before it's too late. Peace! report abuse
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These folks donated to Yes on 8:
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NAME OF CONTRIBUTORCITYZIPAMOUNTFILED DATE RUSSELL VAN DER WERFPATTERSON95363-8359$100.00 10/6/2008 AZEVEDO DAIRY, INC.PATTERSON95363-9630$100.00 10/6/2008 JOEL GUNTERPATTERSON95363-9774$100.00 10/6/2008 WAYNE MILLERPATTERSON95363-9780$100.00 10/6/2008 JAMES LOWDERPATTERSON95363$500.00 10/6/2008 JAMES HASKINPATTERSON95363-9120$500.00 10/6/2008 RACHEL HASKINPATTERSON95363-9120$500.00 10/6/2008 DOUGLAS DALTONPATTERSON95363-9743$500.00 10/6/2008 report abuse
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James D Haskin Support $4,000.00 CA Patterson
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Margaret Friedrich Support $1,000.00 CA Patterson Brett Wagstaff Support $60.00 CA Patterson Azevedo Dairy, Inc. Support $100.00 CA Patterson Russell Van Der Werf Support $100.00 CA Patterson Wayne Miller Support $100.00 CA Patterson Douglas Dalton Support $500.00 CA Patterson James Haskin Support $500.00 CA Patterson James Lowder Support $500.00 CA Patterson Rachel Haskin Support $500.00 CA Patterson Joel Gunter Support $100.00 CA Patterson Courtesy of: http://www.sfgate.com/webdb/prop8/?Search Again= report abuse
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wow, hold on now!sometimes things are better left alone..while i hate the mere thought of radical religion seeping into government..it is a free country and they can donate to what ever cause they feel like. funny how though they use there amercian given rights to do so but feel the need to strip others of theirs.
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i don't think a public parade of who's who in with the support of prop 8 is helpful. how about instead of a public slam list how about a list of of what to do to make sure radical religion stays out of my home,my womb,my wallet, and work on a solution to end this very clear violation of the basic rights of us citizens which is the pursuit of happiness and all created equal. to stand by and allow one group of people be isolated because a group of people believe a book(bible) has provided them with superior knowledge of what the moral law of the land should be is sad.for all you bible thumpers that will go on and on about marriage between a man and a woman please save it! and if you decide to spin the web of lies about man and women need to be together for creation of children.save that spin too. gays can't have kids and if they choose to adopt good! plenty of kids need homes..being that they came from hetrosexual relationships that failed and someone did not step up to care for them. but this prop 8 is a slippery slop down to preventing gays from adopting! this prop 8 is a doorway opened to religion deciding what the rest of us should do. for all you voters of yes on 8 so glad that you all can cast stones and don't live in gla*s houses. for all you closet porno junkies,gamblers, boozers, wife beaters, ,liars,cheaters,child abusers, people shackin up and livin in sin, having pre-martial sex, and you voted yes on prop 8..... SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! report abuse
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Lots of chatter back and forth on who's right and who's wrong. All this talk of equality and fair treatment, yet overtones of hostility. Give those who are trying to promote grace a break.
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Over the centuries people who misunderstood or misinterpreted the Bible have done terrible things. The Bible has been misused to defend bloody crusades and tragic inquisitions; to support slavery, apartheid, and segregation; to persecute Jews and other non-Christian people of faith; to support Hitler's Third Reich and the Holocaust; to oppose medical science; to condemn interracial marriage; to execute women as witches; and to support the Ku Klux Klan. Shakespeare said it this way: "Even the devil can cite Scripture for his purpose.
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Amy - Dont pray for me, my god is all loving and caring. I am not going to hell for something god created and wanted me to be. I dont want to be married by your church, I JUST WANT THE GOVERNMENT TO ALLOW ME INTO A HOSPITAL ROOM IF MY BOYFRIEND IS EVER IN THE EMERGENCY ROOM, OR HAVE A CHANCE OF KEEPING CUSTODY OF OUR CHILD IF ANYTHING EVER HAPPENS TO HIM. I dont want approval from your religion, just equality from our nation!!!!!! I have faith that this will be reversed and You will definitely get an invite to our wedding
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Also, at one point the bible said that it was wrong for interacial marriage and i believe that you are in an interacial union. Lets pray that god doesnt hold that against you when its your time. EQUALITY FOR ALL report abuse
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,445865,00.html
In particular, check out the picture of the card with the child's signature on it. They're kindergartners for Pete's sake. Let's keep the homosexual agenda out of the elementary schools.