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| Written by Scott McKinley | Perspectives | |
| Friday, 24 October 2008 | |
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Gay marriage ban a dangerous proposition On Nov. 4, California residents will be asked to vote on Proposition 8. If passed, this measure would take away the rights of gay couples to marry. Recent polls indicate that the outcome of this measure is quite uncertain.  Scott McKinley / Perspectives I call the first group of Proposition 8 supporters the “compromise” group. They feel that “marriage” is just a word, and if it makes conservatives happy to claim it, then let them. They tend to support civil unions with identical rights to marriage unions. The main flaw with this argument is that it creates a “separate-but-equal” arrangement for committed couples. We learned 50 years ago that when “separate but equal” was applied to education, there was no equality. With thousands of laws written with the concept of marriage in them, it seems likely that civil unions will also result in a less-than-equal treatment of gay couples. I call the second group of people who support this proposition, the “icky” group. Their basic argument is that homosexuality is gross — though they rarely state this outright — and instead offer half-hearted justification for their revulsion. They may complain (perhaps while sipping a diet soda filled with artificial sweeteners out of a plastic cup) that homosexuality is unnatural. They might say that gay couples should not marry because they can’t breed. Yet if these arguments were genuine, the same people would surely be pushing for civil unions instead of marriage for elderly and infertile couples. I think what my parents do behind closed doors is icky, but I don’t think that is a reason to break up their marriage. If you find homosexuality gross, just do what you do for an unattractive heterosexual couple — be happy for their happiness and ignore their bedroom antics. The last group is the “religious” group. They tend to quote bits and pieces from the Bible or parrot what a religious leader has told them. The problem here is obvious — people are pushing church into the state to attempt to deny people a right. Not only is this dangerous territory, but it sets the stage for more religious codes entering laws and denying us our rights. It is difficult to respect this salad bar approach to religion, which leads certain overzealous Christian conservatives to quote ad nauseum Bible verses that support their causes, while simply ignoring more problematic passages. Why not also follow the law from God to kill people who work on the Sabbath? Why allow obese people to marry who suffer under the sin of gluttony? Why wear cotton/polyester blends when the Bible forbids it? Lest we forget, this tactic was used to justify bans on interracial marriage. So let’s not repeat the same mistakes of the past. Remember Brown v. Board of Education, where the Supreme Court ruled “separate educational facilities are inherently unequal.” Or recall that in Loving v. Virginia, the Supreme Court declared that “marriage is one of the ‘basic civil rights of man,’ fundamental to our very existence and survival. … To deny this fundamental freedom on so unsupportable a basis as the racial classifications … is surely to deprive all the state’s citizens of liberty without due process of law.” Just as we are often shocked and dismayed at the racism of the past, let’s not leave another historical marker of intolerance and bigotry for the future to look back upon. Perspectives is a slightly whimsical look at life, philosophy, religion and politics. Scott McKinley is a scientist and a local Patterson resident. He may be reached by e-mail at This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it . Comments
(24)
I have yet to hear an argument supporting Prop 8 that has its roots in rationality. I see fundamentalists trying to foise their religion on me. Marriage is a state-sanctioned union, as well as a religious one. If Mormons and other fundamentalists don't want gays to be married in their church, so be it. But please don't take away the right to a legal marriage between two loving human beings. As a cartoon I saw the other day says, " The worst threat to marriage is....divorce."
Votes: +5
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Yes on prop. 8
Votes: -7
Social liberals should vote yes on Proposition 8. A left-wing liberal is someone who seeks to protect individual liberties and rights for everybody. I believe society should accept all lifestyles and beliefs; however, individuals should not be forced to. Groups want to vote yes on Proposition 8 because of their moral views, I will vote yes on Proposition 8 because I am a social liberal. Let me explain. Same-sex marriage is currently legal in California. A fertility doctor in San Diego was sued for not performing artificial insemination on a lesbian woman, according to abcnews.com. The doctor politely declined the service; however, she respectfully gave her client the name of a good doctor that would perform the procedure. Does this doctor deserve civil liberties? Does she have the right to live her religion? Maybe she was born with such a religious conviction, it was not a choice. In Ma*sachusetts, where same sex marriage is legal, the Catholic Church had to shut down their adoption agency rather than be compelled by the state to adopt children to same-sex couples, according to boston.com. Some liberals claim to be tolerant of all individual liberties. But forcing groups to accept a certain lifestyle and set of beliefs is not liberalism. In Sweden, where same-sex marriage is legal, a pastor was arrested and convicted for saying, "[bleep]sexuality is a cancerous tumor on the body of society," according to sfbaytime.com. Of course I am not saying that you have to agree with this extreme statement, but shouldn't pastors have freedom of speech as well as religion? By saying [bleep]sexuality is a sin, it does not mean that someone hates or wants to ostracize anyone. For some reason liberalism only goes one way. For example, last Friday, a public school's first grade cla*s in San Francisco was bused to the same-sex marriage ceremony of their teacher. These same kinds of liberals fought hard to take the word of God out of the school system. But if schools can't teach about God then they also shouldn't be allowed to teach other social beliefs. The ballot does not guarantee that something like this will happen. But I'm sure that David and Tania Parker of the state of Ma*sachusetts would have liked that guarantee before David was arrested for questioning why he could not "opt out" his kindergartner from being taught about gay marriage. The last point is that it will cost religious organizations millions of dollars in legal fees. The lawsuits against organizations that oppose same-sex marriage will be unbearable. Groups that preach [bleep]sexuality is a sin will soon be in danger of losing their tax exempt status, according to protectmarriage.com We need to protect the civil liberties and religious rights for everyone. If Proposition 8 would give [bleep]sexual couples any additional state civil liberties besides the title of "marriage," I would understand voting no. But, it will not. Under California's domestic partnership laws, same-sex couples are entitled to the same state rights as heterosexual couples enjoy, according to lesbianlife.about.com. Voting yes on Proposition 8 does not mean you are a bigot or that you promote hate. Religious rights and freedom are at stake in the upcoming election. I urge all to vote yes on Proposition 8. report abuse
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Calmandcontent,
Votes: +6
It is immoral because your brand of religion states it is. Would you really want people's interpretation of religious dogma to determine who may be married? This was done back in the days when marriage was not allowed betwen people of different faiths, race, and economic cla*s. People said it would destroy socity and was ungodly. In 1959, a Virginia judge ruled against an interracial couple with the words: "Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races show that he did not intend for the races to mix." Yet now you will be hard pressed to find people who believe God is against interracial marriage. Let's learn from history and not repeat it all over again. Diane Griego, I think it becomes clearer if you substitute interracial for homosexual. If a doctor refused to see or help an interracial couple, we would clearly see it as discrimination based on race. Or what if the doctor wdidn't want to perform artificial insemination on a Muslim because it is against his faith to help out blasphemers? Sweden and many other countries do not have our freedom of speech. However, that is a separate issue and I fully agree with you on that issue. However, that is separate from this issue. Schools do teach about God. They just are not allowed to promote religion. So Christianity is treated equal to every other religion in the world in the cla*sroom. Remember, that homosexuals are not outlawed by accepting this measure. This does not affect what kids are taught in school except the wording "homosexual marriage" or "homosexual civil union." Kids also had to learn about interracial marriages after they became illegal. Now, you don't hear people complain about that anymore. I urge you to really think about the idea of a separate but equal marriage. There are so many laws that it is almost impossible to make them ever equal. As some example, think of how taxes are files; how much easier it is to get a marriage partner nationalized than a civil union partner; or imagine what happens when a family moves from one state to another. If we truly want to be fair and guarantee people's rights, we need to reject Prop 8. report abuse
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I will be voting yes on 8. Protect marriage between a man and a women. Vote yes on 8.
Votes: -7
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Prepared for Delivery on June 12, 2007,
Votes: +6
The 40th Anniversary of the Loving vs. Virginia Announcement When my late husband, Richard, and I got married in Washington, DC in 1958, it wasn’t to make a political statement or start a fight. We were in love, and we wanted to be married. We didn’t get married in Washington because we wanted to marry there. We did it there because the government wouldn’t allow us to marry back home in Virginia where we grew up, where we met, where we fell in love, and where we wanted to be together and build our family. You see, I am a woman of color and Richard was white, and at that time people believed it was okay to keep us from marrying because of their ideas of who should marry whom. When Richard and I came back to our home in Virginia, happily married, we had no intention of battling over the law. We made a commitment to each other in our love and lives, and now had the legal commitment, called marriage, to match. Isn’t that what marriage is? Not long after our wedding, we were awakened in the middle of the night in our own bedroom by deputy sheriffs and actually arrested for the “crime” of marrying the wrong kind of person. Our marriage certificate was hanging on the wall above the bed. The state prosecuted Richard and me, and after we were found guilty, the judge declared: “Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.” He sentenced us to a year in prison, but offered to suspend the sentence if we left our home in Virginia for 25 years exile. We left, and got a lawyer. Richard and I had to fight, but still were not fighting for a cause. We were fighting for our love. Though it turned out we had to fight, happily Richard and I didn’t have to fight alone. Thanks to groups like the ACLU and the NAACP Legal Defense & Education Fund, and so many good people around the country willing to speak up, we took our case for the freedom to marry all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court. And on June 12, 1967, the Supreme Court ruled unanimously that, “The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men,” a “basic civil right.” My generation was bitterly divided over something that should have been so clear and right. The majority believed that what the judge said, that it was God’s plan to keep people apart, and that government should discriminate against people in love. But I have lived long enough now to see big changes. The older generation’s fears and prejudices have given way, and today’s young people realize that if someone loves someone they have a right to marry. Surrounded as I am now by wonderful children and grandchildren, not a day goes by that I don’t think of Richard and our love, our right to marry, and how much it meant to me to have that freedom to marry the person precious to me, even if others thought he was the “wrong kind of person” for me to marry. I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry. Government has no business imposing some people’s religious beliefs over others. Especially if it denies people’s civil rights. I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness, and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about. report abuse
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As an African American I am tired of Gay and Lesbian people tying a race issue into an issue of gay & lesbian rights. Please make your own point but do not add the seperate but equal act or think that I as an african american should understand your fight. It is sexual orientation and color of ones skin are very different and I take it offensively that they would be catorgorized the same. My mother and grandmother marched with Martin Luther King and boycotted the buses. So, find your own way of backing up your claim for gay marriage without adding race or using history of race to support something that clearly does not have to do with ethnicity.
Votes: -6
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I am voting Yes on 8. Simply because my personal beliefs is that marriage is between man and woman. When I saw the news the other day, children in San Francisco had a field trip to see their teachers same sex marriage ceremony I was sickened. Whatkind of parents allow this? I guess this is why we moved out of the bay area prior to having our children. If this vote does not work out the way I hope it will. It is a big possibility that we will pull our children out of their curent schools hire a tutor and home school them to protect their innocence. This world is becoming the devils playground. People seem to be more and more accepting of immoral behavior.
Votes: -7
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The last point is that it will cost religious organizations millions of dollars in legal fees. The lawsuits against organizations that oppose same-sex marriage will be unbearable. Not true! That is one of the comments that is so misleading. The church, any church, can still follow their faith and not marry a homosexual couple, that is a church's right.. And let me remind you that there are plenty of churches who do not discriminate and will and do allow homosexual couples into their congregation. I believe society should accept all lifestyles and beliefs; however, individuals should not be forced to. Also, no one will be forced to believe in homosexual marriage. People who think homosexuals are "icky" or think they are an abomination to God can still believe that! Americans have the right to believe what they want, even if it's completely ridiculous and bigoted and hateful; it's a free country! But to ban any group of people because they don't fit into yours/others beliefs is completely Un-American and goes against every fabric of our Constitution. If you hate gays and homosexuals for whatever reason, go on ahead! That is your right and our American Constitution grants you that right! But, if you are an American of the United States and believe in what America stands for, then you should Vote No on Prop 8. You can allow gays to marry and still hate who they are and what they do and still allow them their rights. Our American Constitution should never force beliefs onto the citizens of the United States of America, and, that is precisely want prop 8 is doing if you vote yes.... Vote No on Discrimination, Vote No on 8. report abuse
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Thank you Scott for writing an insightful article. I grew up in Patterson and was happily surprised to see your article in the local paper when I visited family there this weekend. It amazes me that people in this day and age are still fearful of homosexuality and think it will cause the downfall of society.
Votes: +7
Homelessness is a bigger issue. Divorce is a much bigger issue. Domestic violence is a bigger issue. Families are ravaged by domestic violence every day yet some people seem to think that homosexuality somehow is a greater evil. All I see is fear and hate in these people and I can't understand why two same sex people showing love for one another is such a threat to them. Thanks again for a great article! VOTE NO ON PROP 8! report abuse
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if gay marriage is against god and there is a such thing as judgement day then gays will be judged then. i highly doubt gay marriage books in the schools..come on now. i am not worried by that the least bit. i really doubt teachers would bow down and read some lame book on gay marriage. im also sure plenty of parents,church community leaders,and the district would see an end to that. here in homo-phob valley and patterson a gay marriage book would not even see the light of day. dont need to scare people into thinknig that if you do not vote yes for this big brother measure that they will be teaching about adam and steve...and big drag queen jhon will be teaching home economics in your school. i lived in a community with lots of gay's and i never felt swayed lured or a victim by the gay community. i don't agree with the gay lifestyle that's me.however it is not for me to stop adults from making their own decisions about their life. this is another distraction measure from real issues like welfare for the rich! war crimes commited by our government, and how we are the richest nation but have millions of hungry kids going to bed. hey isn't california like on the brink of an b.k. im not worrid about gay lifestyle teachings. im worried about p.e being cut,little to no science,history,art being offrerd,gangs,and drugs. why is the church so knee deep in the measure? and so concerned about the school..what happened to seperation of church and state? parents do not be afraid of the tom and jhon book that will never be read in your childrens schools..be more afraid of the pervet deacon,pastor,fathers,that are using the bible for mind control over kids for sexual gains. before the church can start pointing to gays for the demise of childhood development and the undoing of society..so many need to be looking in the mirror. this is not some modern day idea to ward of evil lurking in the dark. it is the same old school of thought that once something is identified as not godly the church then goes on a hate/scare campgain to control it. this school of thought burned women who they thought were witches, enslaved people, told women they were whores if they wore pants,scared children with talk of burning in eternal hell. but now we find out all these yrs later that back in the days of the so called "good old days" many churches used this phony front of moral authority to commit some of the most sick and twisted acts against childrens and families. no on 8 b/c a gay family is still a family and they deserve rights to make dacisions about what happens to their partners in illnes,shared property,children,health care. we all know marriage is defined by man and women.....this issue is a dead horse being beaten. report abuse
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I can not believe that most of the excuses for this discrimination have religious roots. Separation of Church and state...it is that simple. If you can not come up with a logical concrete argument beside something pulled out of a book that everyone deciphers to their own advantage you need to be quiet. You can not allow your religious views be pushed on to others. Oh and to Shay. If you are so close minded that you would pull your kids from school just because they "might" be exposed to conversations of the such....just do it. You obviously want your children to grow up believing all is sunshine and rainbows and anyone that does not agree with their parents are evil. They will probably be just as bigoted as you and I would rather my children not be around people like that.
Votes: +6
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Danielle,
Votes: +4
I grew up in Georgia and I heard all of the arguments against gay marriage used against interracial marriage. The issues are tied because the exact same reasons are being used to challengs both. If you accept "Yes on 8" for some reason, I am pretty sure that exact same reason was used against interracial marriage or against civil rights for African Americans. I know many people have a dream where we can live in a nation where people will not be judged by their sexual orientation but by the content of their character. This is why the issues are tied together. You can't have arbitrary civil rights for a select few. report abuse
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Those words were written by Mildred Loving, the very brave African-American woman who stood up to Prop 8 types who said she was unfit to marry a white man. You are free today to marry a man of whatever race you choose, because of Mildred Loving.
Votes: +4
Bigots banged their Bibles back then to justify their irrational prejudices, just as they do today. report abuse
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Bigot: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Votes: +5
Prejudice: an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason. Segregate: to separate or set apart from others or from the main body or group; isolate to require, often with force, the separation of (a specific racial, religious, or other group) from the general body of society. Intolerance: lack of toleration; unwillingness or refusal to tolerate or respect contrary opinions or beliefs, persons of different races or backgrounds, etc. 2. incapacity or indisposition to bear or endure Which one of these words fits why you are voting yes on 8? report abuse
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I have not decided which way I am going to vote on the prop 8 issue. I have a lesbian sister-in-law and a lesbian cousin who bombards me with questions on which way I am going to vote. My answer is I am still undecided. I cannot just drop how I was raised and my beliefs at the drop of a hat. Which is why I am not sure but I have a week to figure it out.
Votes: +0
I am not pro gay & lesbian nor am I anti gay & lesbian. I just do not think that the gay and lesbian issue ties into race. I am a product of an inter-racial relationship and was given up because my mothers family did not want a 'child of color'. Just because I am an african american one cannot expect me to understand the issues of being gay or lesbian. Definitely not because I am a straight woman who happens to be african american. The fight for racial equality in some ways is different because I see my cousin who happens to be a lesbian. None of her collegues at work know that she is a lesbian nor does many members of our family. She feels that her private life is private. I cannot go to my job and they not know that I am not African American. I even have to mark the African American box. There is no gay or lesbian box.I am entilitled to my opinion, that's what this forum is about..opinions, right? report abuse
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Can someone please tell me what will be the difference between gay marriage and a civil union? Doesn't the civil union have some type of documentation? What would be the difference from the civil unions that are being performed?
Votes: +0
I am asking this because I am getting married soon (spring 2009) and I would like my certificate to read husband and wife. I noticed that a good friend of mine her certificate says party a and party b.  report abuse
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The last I saw on the subject of marriage certificates on CNN was that there will be multiple choice: Husband and Wife; Husband and Husband; Wife and Wife; etc. There was also talk of leaving two blanks to write it in....
Votes: +0
I hope voters will do the right thing. It will be a shameful stain to add to our history if we allow the government (once again) to ban any group of Americans... report abuse
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What if a person believes homosexual marriage is morally wrong, not because of what a cuurch or religon says? When a majority of the people are forced to accept what a minority says is right it is total social enginering at its worst.
Votes: -1
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The lord said two things "Let He Who is without sin cast the first stone" and "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". In that light IF Prop 8 pa*ses you should also say ALL marriage should be banned between the religions and races and everyone covered under a civil union IF you truly follow the word of Jesus.
Votes: +3
If you want to go back further, look at these sins that the punishment would beDEATH : Murder Sex crimes, including adultery, male homosexual sex, bestiality (Leviticus 20) and rape (Deuteronomy 22) A betrothed woman who does not cry out while being raped (Deuteronomy 22:23-4) A woman who is found not to have been a virgin on the night of her wedding (Deuteronomy 22:13-22) Worshiping other gods (Deuteronomy 13:6-13:10, Exodus 22:20) Witchcraft (Exodus 22:1  Taking God's name in vain or cursing God's name (Leviticus 24:16) Cursing a parent (Exodus 21:15, 2:17, Leviticus 20:9, and in the New Testament Mark 7:10) Kidnapping (Exodus 21:16) For and even longer list of Capital Crimes see: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L..._the_bible)[url=(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L..._the_bible) The Bible and Koran also allow for slavery, with rules on such. Would anyone say that slavery should be allowed because a Holy Book allows for it? If anyone can quote any of the gospels, the Koran or any other holy work that says that overrides these. If you are want to quote the bible and say you are doing this to follow the Lords word, go hang yourself if you had relations before you were married or cursed you parents. The Lord was as far left as you could get, so don't say you are doing his work as you are committing the sin of blasphemy. NO ON 8 - Follow the Lord report abuse
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The Marriage Certificate started as Party A and Party B. It NOW is Husband/Wife; Husband;Husband; or Wife/Wife.
Votes: +1
Voting No on 8 DOES NOT CHANGE MARRIAGE as it has stood forever. It does not take away any parents rights Check California's laws on parental rights on other issues as well if you think that the schools will force any belief on your child. The parents are the judge, jury and executioner regarding their children's education, physical well being, moral upbringing, ect... Don't let anyone tell you different on anything regarding your kids. report abuse
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To George Denton: If you're not homosexual and are not getting married, why/how would it affect you?
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To WWJD: If homosexuality is sinful and you are not a homosexual, why/how does it affect you? report abuse
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To separate but not equal RE:WWJD
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Jesus would tell us to love the sinner and hate the sin. Don't miss the point of His life, death, burial and resurrection. To Danielle, well said! report abuse
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Stop encouraging immoral, gross sexual acts between a man and a man or a woman and a woman. It is destroying society!